PETER ROST: PHARMA MARKETING EXPERT WITNESS. AWP, MEDICAL DEVICE EXPERT.: They Will All Go To Hell.
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PETER ROST: PHARMA MARKETING EXPERT WITNESS. AWP, MEDICAL DEVICE EXPERT.

Peter Rost, M.D., is a former Pfizer Marketing Vice President providing services as a medical device and drug expert witness and pharmaceutical marketing expert. Judge Sanders: "The court agrees with defendants' view that Dr. Rost is a very adept and seasoned expert witness." He is also the author of Emergency Surgery, The Whistleblower and Killer Drug. You can reach him on rostpeter (insert symbol) hotmail.com. Please read the terms of use agreement and privacy policy for this blog carefully.

They Will All Go To Hell.

Ten days ago I wrote Are they Nuts in the Middle East?

It was a post in which I didn't support Israel or Hezbollah or anyone else. Because I think they're all crazy.


I have Jewish friends and I have Arab friends. But that's not the reason I'm not taking sides. I'm not taking sides because I think neither side is right. Because I think neither side will win. Because I think they will go on killing each other until there is no Israeli and no Arab left to kill.



Since I wrote that blog post, U.S. Congress has come out strongly in support of Israel.

And it is no small talk. They put some billions of dollars behind that talk and give Israel the best military machine money can buy. So to fight this machine, Hezbollah hides in residential neighborhoods, where they can't be easily found and defeated.



And of course, when Israel attacks them, not just fighters die, but children.

And just to make sure this hits you in the gut, this is how that looks.



So who's fault is this? Israel wants you to believe it is Hezbollah hiding among civilians, and Hezbollah sends out this image, exploiting their dead children, to gain support for their cause.



Truth is neither side gives a sh-t about these children. Israel doesn't really want to kill them, because that gets world opinion against them, otherwise they don't care. Because if they cared they wouldn't continue to kill these children. And Hezbollah also doesn't care about killing civilians and children, since they indiscriminately shower Israel with rockets.

So here we are again, in modern times, with adults killing children.

And both sides are just as determined to continue.

But it doesn't stop there. In Arab territories, "martyrs" are celebrated and children learn early to respect their sacrifices and to look up to the "martyrs." The posters of suicide bombers only come down when western photographers show up.



And Israel is no better. In Israel the children get to sign off on the rockets that kill the Lebanese children.

All of this orchestrated by--adults. Adults killing children, teaching their own children to hate.



And our president Bush doesn't think it is time to stop the fighting. Not yet.

In an earlier post I quoted the infamous Nazi Hermann Goering. This is what he said, "Why, of course, the people don't want war," Goering shrugged. "Why would some poor slob on a farm want to risk his life in a war when the best that he can get out of it is to come back to his farm in one piece. Naturally, the common people don't want war; neither in Russia nor in England nor in America, nor for that matter in Germany. That is understood. But, after all, it is the leaders of the country who determine the policy and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy or a fascist dictatorship or a Parliament or a Communist dictatorship."

Of course the people don't want war.

How could they?

Look at the images!



But that doesn't matter, does it? Because Bush saw no reason to ask Israel to stop. Or to seek peace with Hezbollah. Why?

Because both the state of Israel, and Hezbollah want war. Why else kill hundreds of people in Lebanon because two soldiers were kidnapped? Why else kidnap the soldiers?

And of course neither side can talk to the other. After all you don't talk to "terrorists" nor do you talk to a state you don't recognize.


This is the situation.

Make no mistake about the fathers, the mothers, the leaders, the presidents, who created this situation.

They can go to church every Sunday, looking pious, they can bend over in the direction of Mecca and pray to Allah, they can celebrate Sabbath, but in the end, they will all go to hell.

39 Comments:

Anonymous Anonymous said...

O.K. Peter Rost. Now, IF you would get some facts leading up to this, SUCH AS, that Hezbullah has been reinforcing bunkers, training and equipping for war for six years. The fact that BOTH Hamas/Fatah and Hezbullah declared WAR simultaneously. The fact THAT Iran has been mouthing off for more than a year now about wiping Israel AND the U.S. OFF the map, etc. PLUS the fact, that Heabullah a TRANSNATIONAL MILITIA cum terrorist/criminal/social service agency has DELIBERATELY CHOSEN Lebanon as its war theatre - they could have chosen Syria - we can continue this discussion further. It also would help if Hezbullah had clear military uniforms, represented one nation, had military bases and other military targets. Until then, please, get informed. Again, they DECLARED WAR. And yes, war is terrible. Lebanon will be on Israel's side after this ends, and cooperate with Israel and International force AGAINST Hezbullah. By the way, Peter, Arab countries are also taking Israel's side in this. Good night.........

7/24/2006  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Get out a few maps, indicating coountries and boundaries over the last 100 yrs. Israel has been officially recognized since 1948. Hezbullah, Peter, is not a country, it is a transnational militia. Hezbullah, Peter, is not only against Israel, it is also against non shii, such as suni, and against the U.S. Hezbullah, Peter, as Hamas?fatah, had a window of a few days to end this, and declared they were NOT going to return the captives - in their words ..."PRISONERS OF WAR" ...they would, as soon as they were crazy, because they would lose their bargaining "chips". WAS there a war between Lebanon and Israel, Peter? WAS there a war between Hezbullah and Israel, Peter? WAS thjere a war between Hamas/Fatah and Israel, Peter. Get your FACTS straight. Do no talk out of your neckhair if you are too lazy to get your facts.

7/24/2006  
Blogger liberal elite said...

Anonymous: There are always plenty of FACTS to justify war.

None of these facts have any bearing on Dr. Rost's point. This war, like all others, is for the benefit of the few on each side. The normal people get nothing from this but dead children.

7/24/2006  
Anonymous Rosethejet said...

Some people just don't get the distinction between the two points being made.

While I agree that Hezbollah is a horrible and cowardly outfit, one does have to wonder they the response from Israel.

NOW I understand Isreal letting Hezbollah and others know they simply cannot waltz into Israel, murders soldiers and kidnap others without some consequences, but the consequences end up being the pictures we see above.

The good Doctor's post made me think of another statement I read a long time agon. It was my two time Congressional Medal of Honor Winner, Marine Mqjor General Smedley Darlington Butler (yep they used to name their kids that stuff once upon a time) It is a rather long desertation and one I would recommend everyone take the time to read. I have posted only a small portion of the entire speech he gave below.

You can read the rest at: http://www.ratical.org/ratville/CAH/warisaracket.html#c1

OH one more thing.....it was written in 1933

CHAPTER ONE

War Is A Racket

WAR is a racket.

It always has been.

It is possibly the oldest, easily the most profitable, surely the most vicious. It is the only one international in scope. It is the only one in which the profits are reckoned in dollars and the losses in lives.

A racket is best described, I believe, as something that is not what it seems to the majority of the people. Only a small "inside" group knows what it is about. It is conducted for the benefit of the very few, at the expense of the very many. Out of war a few people make huge fortunes.

In the World War [I] a mere handful garnered the profits of the conflict. At least 21,000 new millionaires and billionaires were made in the United States during the World War. That many admitted their huge blood gains in their income tax returns. How many other war millionaires falsified their tax returns no one knows.

How many of these war millionaires shouldered a rifle? How many of them dug a trench? How many of them knew what it meant to go hungry in a rat-infested dug-out? How many of them spent sleepless, frightened nights, ducking shells and shrapnel and machine gun bullets? How many of them parried a bayonet thrust of an enemy? How many of them were wounded or killed in battle?

Out of war nations acquire additional territory, if they are victorious. They just take it. This newly acquired territory promptly is exploited by the few -- the selfsame few who wrung dollars out of blood in the war. The general public shoulders the bill.

And what is this bill?

This bill renders a horrible accounting. Newly placed gravestones. Mangled bodies. Shattered minds. Broken hearts and homes. Economic instability. Depression and all its attendant miseries. Back-breaking taxation for generations and generations.

War is just a racket. A racket is best described, I believe, as something that is not what it seems to the majority of people. Only a small inside group knows what it is about. It is conducted for the benefit of the very few at the expense of the masses.

I believe in adequate defense at the coastline and nothing else. If a nation comes over here to fight, then we'll fight. The trouble with America is that when the dollar only earns 6 percent over here, then it gets restless and goes overseas to get 100 percent. Then the flag follows the dollar and the soldiers follow the flag.

I wouldn't go to war again as I have done to protect some lousy investment of the bankers. There are only two things we should fight for. One is the defense of our homes and the other is the Bill of Rights. War for any other reason is simply a racket.

There isn't a trick in the racketeering bag that the military gang is blind to. It has its "finger men" to point out enemies, its "muscle men" to destroy enemies, its "brain men" to plan war preparations, and a "Big Boss" Super-Nationalistic-Capitalism.

It may seem odd for me, a military man to adopt such a comparison. Truthfulness compels me to. I spent thirty- three years and four months in active military service as a member of this country's most agile military force, the Marine Corps. I served in all commissioned ranks from Second Lieutenant to Major-General. And during that period, I spent most of my time being a high class muscle- man for Big Business, for Wall Street and for the Bankers. In short, I was a racketeer, a gangster for capitalism.

I suspected I was just part of a racket at the time. Now I am sure of it. Like all the members of the military profession, I never had a thought of my own until I left the service. My mental faculties remained in suspended animation while I obeyed the orders of higher-ups. This is typical with everyone in the military service.

I helped make Mexico, especially Tampico, safe for American oil interests in 1914. I helped make Haiti and Cuba a decent place for the National City Bank boys to collect revenues in. I helped in the raping of half a dozen Central American republics for the benefits of Wall Street. The record of racketeering is long. I helped purify Nicaragua for the international banking house of Brown Brothers in 1909-1912. I brought light to the Dominican Republic for American sugar interests in 1916. In China I helped to see to it that Standard Oil went its way unmolested.

During those years, I had, as the boys in the back room would say, a swell racket. Looking back on it, I feel that I could have given Al Capone a few hints. The best he could do was to operate his racket in three districts.

I operated on three continents.”


Further reading:

http://www.lewrockwell.com/shaffer/shaffer42.html

This article is particularly disturbing:

http://www.commondreams.org/views04/1119-24.htm

7/24/2006  
Anonymous Rosethejet said...

WHOOPS

I left out a word in the above bit. It SHOULD have read....it was my FAVORITE two time marine general....

7/24/2006  
Anonymous July17th said...

Alright, I'm going to get on MY soapbox now. Those who don't like soapboxes, with references, please turn back now!!

The ONLY people who profit from war are arms sellers. But, a better question would be who finances war? Follow the money!
They are the ones controlling the chess pieces. They probably are suppling BOTH sides, through intermediaries, with there weapons.

What does war accomplish? Of course it depends on your perspective. If you're an arms merchant that's one thing. Citizen of the fighting countries, the reality is quite different.

If someone, some group wanted war what could be the possible objectives?:

1) Turmoil is much more profitable to munitions manufacturers.

2) World leaders have a much easier time undermining democratic governments during times of turmoil.

3) If you're a fighting country, and want to make a deal for arms, your interest is higher. More risk. You may have to put up something very valuable, such as your natural resources, as colladeral.

Follow the money. It never lies. Are we being marched down a primrose path? The answers are out there and we need to show those answers to VERY MANY MORE people.

THIS IS JUST THE SHADDOW OF A 'TIP OF THE ICEBERG' ON THIS SUBJECT: W.R. PITT GAVE ME 30 REFERENCES FOR "BLOOD MONEY" ALONE!

http://www.savethemales.ca/000808.html

http://www.savethemales.ca/260602.html

http://www.gregpalast.com/archive/

http://www.truthout.org/cgi-bin/artman/exec/view.cgi?archive=1&num=53 [follow imbedded links]

http://www.wealth4freedom.com/creature.htm

7/24/2006  
Anonymous July17th said...

Alright, I'm going to get on MY soapbox now. Those who don't like soapboxes, with references, please turn back now!!

The ONLY people who profit from war are arms sellers. But, a better question would be who finances war? Follow the money!
They are the ones controlling the chess pieces. They probably are suppling BOTH sides, through intermediaries, with there weapons.

What does war accomplish? Of course it depends on your perspective. If you're an arms merchant that's one thing. Citizen of the fighting countries, the reality is quite different.

If someone, some group wanted war what could be the possible objectives?:

1) Turmoil is much more profitable to munitions manufacturers.

2) World leaders have a much easier time undermining democratic governments during times of turmoil.

3) If you're a fighting country, and want to make a deal for arms, your interest is higher. More risk. You may have to put up something very valuable, such as your natural resources, as colladeral.

Follow the money. It never lies. Are we being marched down a primrose path? The answers are out there and we need to show those answers to VERY MANY MORE people.

THIS IS JUST THE SHADDOW OF A 'TIP OF THE ICEBERG' ON THIS SUBJECT: W.R. PITT GAVE ME 30 REFERENCES FOR "BLOOD MONEY" ALONE!

http://www.savethemales.ca/000808.html

http://www.savethemales.ca/260602.html

http://www.gregpalast.com/archive/

http://www.truthout.org/cgi-bin/artman/exec/view.cgi?archive=1&num=53 [follow imbedded links]

http://www.wealth4freedom.com/creature.htm

7/24/2006  
Blogger Moogirl said...

Two Israeli soldiers kidnapped. Israel goes to war. Countless Israeli soldiers killed. For the life of me I cannot make sense of this reasoning. Isn’t this like killing a fly with a bazooka?

While, as a Christian I must support Israel, I don’t agree with anything that’s happening. As a woman and mother, I am horrified. The fact that the only ones suffering are the civilians is, well, I’m having a hard time putting it to words.

liberal elite said it best; “this war is for the benefit of the few on each side. The normal people get nothing from this but dead children.”

Thank you for posting such horrific photos, Doc. As hard as it is to look at them, maybe if more were forced to face such atrocities (Bush, Cheney, Rice, et al) they wouldn’t be so quick to reach for the bazooka.

7/24/2006  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

This is the sort of thing that sanitized news allows for us to think of this in the abstract without reality becoming involved. The blog discusses the killing of children by both Isreal and Hezzbolah forces and graphically shows images. The pics were released as propaganda by one side or the other. But I think that these images should be displayed anytime a talking head wants to sit in front of a camera discuss the "war on terror". How than would you explain to children that to keep them safe or to give them a country another child will have to die or lose their parents. I saw this and I wanted to throw up. All I could do was picture my son.

7/24/2006  
Anonymous sunrunner said...

Well, this really captures how I feel.

The sad think is that unless sane people figure out a way to put a stop to all of this, they will all take us to hell right along with them.

7/24/2006  
Blogger beeta said...

Doc,
I pretty much agree with you,but there are two things missing from your post.
1- Why do people get so passionate whenever the subject of Israel, Arabs or terrorism comes up? The first two commenters (both anonymous) are good examples of Americans who feel like they have a personal stake in this war. Their judgment is colored by their beliefs that, America for the most part is good, just and freedom loving and Isreal has a right to exist because Jews were treated badly by the Nazis and they have a right to thier own nation. Well, I say that both notions are dead wrong. America for most of it's history has used whatever means from war to violence to imposing tarriffs, discrimination, slavery, outright stealing of the native American's land to today's pre-emptive war and strutting around as the only super power, undermining legitimate democratic governments and will of their people from Palestine to Venzuela to Mexico, Iran, Iraq of today, and the list goes on, all with the aim of domination, imperialism and hegomony. Jews were treated badly by the Germans, but they are not alone in history. Black slavery could qualify, the genocide of American Natives could qualify, genocide in Darfur, the Armenian genocide by the Turks, the ethnic cleansing by the Sloves and Moslims in Eastern Europe or the millions dead Russians in WWII all could qualify as bad treatment, but none of these people have been given the right to do to others what was done to them. Isreal is not any nation, it is a "Jewish Nation", which means that if you are a Jew in Isreal you have the right to vote and participate in politics, and if you are not you are a second class citizen. Isreal has many Arab and Christian and Moslim second class citizens. The right of return that the Palestinians ask for addresses this issue. It was not good enough for South Africa's apartide regime and it is not good enough for Israel, that among many many other reasons that Israel as a nation has no justification, least of all a religious justification (God gave them that land theory).
Having said that, if you substitute USSR or China or EU for US, and Palestine or Iran or North Korea for Israel, the conclusion remains intact. That is to say whomever the aggresser or trespasser may be at that point they are in the wrong and it is natural that countries or populations or individuals will try to defend themselves. The wonderful thing about history is that it repeats itself but with different players. As individuals we all have a responsibility to be on the side of truth, justice and compassion, regardless of which side we happen to belong to.
2- The other point you did not mention in your post was the money and power angle which july17th adequetely explored. I just mention one case in recent history that most people are familliar with. Iran-Contra:
US sells arms to Iraq to fight Iran(the boogy man), but then we sell Iran arms so that Saddam won't really win the war and we take the money from that sale and give it to the Contras who are trying to bring down a democraticaly elected government in Nicaragua on our behalf. At the end everyone goes home and try to burry their dead millions and American arms manufacturers and dealers and CEOs and politicians collect thier millions in $$$ not people and try to keep the whole thing "secret" and hidden from thier own population.
'nogh said. I am disgusted!

7/24/2006  
Blogger beeta said...

BTW....for those of you who are defenders of NRA and the right to bear arms....it would be a good idea to read the part of the constitution that explains that right....essentially that citizens have the right to bear arms, so that in the event that the government becomes corrupt and not represent the will of the people, those said people can form an armed militia and rise against their own government.
Here is the parallel:
Hezballah is a an armed militia who is fighting to prevent the government of Lebenon from becoming an American/Israeli puppet (too long to explaine here, Hariri assassination was related to this).
Hamas is an armed militia who won elections against Fatah which was a corrupt and puppet regime in Palestine allowing Israel to humiliate the population.
Regardless of your views on who is in the right, I'd like to see every American that defends his right to bear arms, give thier guns up and then ask Hamas and Hezballah to dis-arm.

7/24/2006  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

http://www.bible-history.com/backd2/moneychangers.html

7/24/2006  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

http://www.wtv-zone.com/Mary/FEDERALRESERVE.HTML

7/24/2006  
Anonymous bebop said...

http://www.john-f-kennedy.net/thefederalreserve.htm

read in order

7/24/2006  
Blogger MsMelody said...

Peter--

Your quotation of Goering is incomplete (or taken from a different source/speech). I quote it below, and I believe the 2nd part is perhaps the scariest--or should be--for all of us.

"Why of course the people don't want war ... But after all it is the leaders of the country who determine the policy, and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy, or a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship ... Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is to tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country." - Hermann Goering, Nazi leader.

We sit here and shake our heads over the mid-East crisis; many of us have provided the cannon-fodder for the Iraq occupation . . . and as Rosethejet said, all of the tragedy and expense is shouldered by the many for the benefit of the few.

I believe so many Americans are so "asleep" that they do not recognize the controls already being used against us to do the bidding of the few. I do not mean to lessen the significance or newsworthiness of the ongoing conflict, but I DO wonder if the coverage being given by the US media is yet another diversion used by the powermongers to distract us from some of the serious issues we face in this country.

I fear the Goerring "had it right." Germany may have lost HIS war, but Cheney, Rove, Bush, et al. have not only seen the roadmap, they have also seen the pitfalls ... and forewarned is forearmed.

(Beeta, Rosethejet--always on target--thanks!)

7/24/2006  
Blogger shooter said...

Doc, please keep this post going. Don't muck it up with a bunch of distracting fluff, at least for a little while.(not that fluff isn't fun, but this is important.) I'd like to spill out my guts on this issue, but my mind is getting dangerously close to the "red line" so I want to cool off before attempting to spell out my thoughts. My son just bought a 27ft small cruiser and he, his girfriend, and her mother are cruising up the Hudson to treat me to dinner shortly. The river never fails me.

Hi Beeta, Rose, and melody. I hope we can keep this post going, not to convince each other that we're right, just to see if we can't get a little closer to a common understanding of this tragic situation.
Later, all..........

p.s. Welcome Moo, you seem like a welcome addition.

7/24/2006  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

War and killing just lead to more war and killing. Neither side is justified. No one "wins" in war.

7/24/2006  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

EVERYONE in Israel who is a citizen, that INCLUDES PALESTINIANS, or people of the muslim faith as well as the christian faith, or any other faith, has a right to vote in Israel, and does vote. There are Palestinians in the Knesset. Get your facts straight. Israel allows everyone to practice his own religion freely. It is NOT YET a jewish state, although some, for example those belonging to Manhigut Yehudit, would very much like it to be a jewish state. Muslims are free to practice their religion all over the world. They do NOT reciprocate. In fact, the POPE just before July 12, had asked for reciprocity, based on the fact tht muslims practice their faith freely all over Europe and in Christian Nations. Jews have ALWAYS live in Palestine. In fact when Jesus reportedly lived there, the land was jewish and called Palestine, EVEN though it was at that time under ROMAN OCCUPATION. Nistorical digs, as well as standing monuments testify to the fact that Palestine always was a jewish nation, until some 2000 years ago, when the jews were dispersed. That does NOT mean that no jews were living there, OR in Lebanon, OR in Iraq, OR in Iran, in fact all over the Middle East. Zionism started in the 1800's, not last week, or in 1947, and jews moved back to what is now Israel since the 1800's. The persecution of jews did NOT only take place during WWII, in fact, it has gone on for millenia, and no jew EVER felt entitled, or acted, like any terrorist. We have to differentiate between muslims, those of the Islamic Faith, and terrorists. Israel was officially declared a nation in 1948. It is not the case that no jew lived there, again, before 1948. Israel has borders officially recognized by ALL nations. Terrorists do not belong to one nation; they are transnational. Hezbullah has its headquarters in Damascus, as do some, I believe 19, other terrorist organizations. Hezbullah is supported by both Syria and Iran. The katyushas, and apparently they have even further reaching rockets, are made in Iran. What Israel wants is to live in PEACE with everyone. Israel has no problems with Egypt, Jordan and a number of other nations in the Middle East. Shii terrorists terrorize not only Israel, they also errorize other Muslims, such as Suni. Shii terrorists kill not only Israelis, they kill Dutch Filmmakers, Belgian Rabbis, anyone and everyone. Israel is defending its borders against a deliberate attack, engineered out of Iraq. There were pronouncements by Mahmood Ahmadinejad, an Iranian Ayatollah, and others in the Arab press in English, against Israel and against the U.S. Shii terrorists have murdered, again, in The Netherlands, Belgium, France, Spain, stampeded all over the world about cartoons in a Danish newspaper and murdered each other. Muslim terrorists have murdered Indians on a train even during this period. Terrorists want ALL infidels either converted to exactly the RIGHT faction of Islam, or, preferrably, murdered. This is no longer an Israeli problem; it is a problem for the whole world. No one is safe.Hezbulla, again, is a multinational organization, and part of the Lebanese government, because it has integrated into the Lebanese population. Israel has no problem with Lebanon; just with Hezbullah. Hezbullah, not the U.S., not Israel, and not even Lebanon, has prepared, built reinforcements, underground tunnels, and underground bunkers at least since 2000. They did not just become "prepared" and "eager" for military action overnight, after a provocation by Israel. They were ready to fight a guerilla war and they carefully engineered a provocation. Yes, war is terrible. For those of you who see the pictures, I have personally experienced WWII. No one needs to tell me, or show me pictures, for me to know what war is like. Or tell me what it feels like to see your classmates shot in front of you on the playground, because they are jewish. There is a lot of "theorizing" going on by people who have "keine Ahnung" - no inkling, and can not be bothered with facts. In fact, as much as I appreciate Dr. Rost, he was born a long time after WWII; he is the age of my children. So, here is a timeline. Zionism started before my parents were born, well before that. My father belonged to a group of jews who were first allowed into a University in Hungary. He worked hi way through University. In fact never set foot in school, other than to do exams. Supported his family from age 13 on. He became an engineer, started his own company in another country. Was taken to the concentrationcamp, I was there also, but for a very short period. Lost all of his belongings, came out, built his business back up. Things wre difficult for jews in Europe. I came to the U.S. Had to do my exams over. Experienced a lot of anti semitism, and harassment. "Kids" in my sixth grade class, straight out of the concentrationcamps and without parents, had to get ready for a job. Then they had an opportunity to go to Israel, in 1948. They have been fighting to have a life, any kind of a life, and PEACE all their life. And all my ancestors have, for millenia. But we celebrate life, not death. And murder is not allowed. I do not know of any blacks, and they were poor and depressed, going out murdering people either. So, what gives some groups the idea that their religion allows them to murder? It is not in the Christian Bible. It is NOT in Torah, and for Islam it comes out of the old Sumerian Cult. The idea that a person feels thet they have been wronged, or their ancesters gives hem a right to murder anyone, at will, forever, and that that is being looked at as legitimate, is wacko. Next time you are wronged, it happens to anyone, I assume, just go out and murder at random and see what happens. Oh, no, it is not acceptable? No, it is against the law and against international law. Be sure to get the facts straight. What is war. What is legitimate. What is terrorism. What is a milita. What is legitimate resistance. I have been in a resistance movement, during WWII, as a kid. It is legitimate within one's legal borders, against hostile occupation. No Israeli is occupying Lebanon, or Iran, or Syria, or any area hat is not legally Israel.

7/24/2006  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

IF Hezbullah keeps standing, EVEN if Israel wins this war, they will declare they have won, and the muslim community will say they have won.
IF Israel declares a cease fire, Hezbullah and the muslim community will declare they have won.
IF Israel would submits to Hezbullah's demands, Hezbullah would slice the captured soldiers heads off and declare they have won.
IF all members of Hezbullah die, they will have won. They will be *martyrs* and their blood is *immaculate*. (just read arab websites).
Hezbullah and all terrorists operte in groups of ten to twelve persons in the midst of civilian populations. Death means nothing to them, it is glorious. The death of civilians is used in a psychological war against the West and against Israel. To us Life is precious and death is terrible. NOT to them. They are allowed, and DO murder their own parents and children IF they do not belong to their own brand of Islam, so Shii who have parents, or children who are Suni, may and do murder those relatives.
There are books on psychology, such as Eric Berne: "Games People Play" and "Transactional Analysis". You will find the psychology employed by the muslim community, and everyone else, for that matter, who plays without a full deck, in those and other books.

7/24/2006  
Blogger beeta said...

to both our anonymous readers,
As Micheal Parenti so well describes...history is only as good as it's writers. Or we can bring in Orwell if you please and the re-writing of history on an ongoing basis. If you believe that the media today in the US is fair and un-biased, then I have nothing to say to you. But if you suspect that it might be slanted, then you have to assume that the very history text books that are taught in our schools are slanted as well. Some guy with a title writes the book about an event and if his views are acceptable by the powers in charge, it gets published and praised and before you know it it becomes the gospel to refer to. Why else we have documents that are classified and even after 100 years not available to the public? Could it be that those documents reveal the truth and not the publicized angle that our government wants to portray?
Do you still believe that the Native Americans were all savages that had to be killed? Did they have a right to defend themselves?
So if you are trying to convince me with your biased media and history and worse yet Biblical stories of ownership of the land, I am not buying.
My facts, I am afraid are much more factual than yours. And Isreal is most certainly a "Jewish State" without equal rights for non Jews. And if you are so well versed on the subject, explain the "right of retun" and the reason for opposition of the Israeli government. And as for your argument about Arab nations that have peace with Israel, look at the unrest in Egypt (9/11 event anyone) or Jordan( Zarqawi anyone) whose governments are puppets in the eyes of their nation. They sold out my friends. Syria and Palestine and Lebenan haven't yet, which is why as stated by Condi and Israeli officials, they need to be brought to see our way by massive military force. Cedar revolution anyone? Hariri assassination?
I finish by pointing out two things that I think are at play here.
1- When someone is abused specially in childhood, the tendency more often than not is to become an abuser. Israel has become the abuser now.
2- When someone's basic beliefs are threatened, the reaction more often than not is to deny the evidence as oppose to re-evaluate. Your basic beliefs and long held assumptions are being threatened by the evicence of Israeli and American cruelty and greed and you choose to deny the evidence.
To each his own.

7/24/2006  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Israel has been a nation since 1958. Like it or not. It is not called the "Zionist Entity". I am not writing history. I lived it. If you see the rain of katyushas coming into Israel and think that that was arranged AFTER those "jews" were attacked in the "Zionist Entity". That is your choice, but it can not logistically be explained. IF you believe, that all these trained Hezbullah "warriors" just "magically" came out of the woodwork as a response to "jewish agression" after "innocent" abduction of Israeli soldiers in their sovereign country, that is your choice. IF you listen to Syrians answering questions on the tube by turning the question on its head, that is YOUR CHOICE. Just know, that it is NOT about Israel any longer. Israel has been the canary in the coalmine for almost sixty years. It is NOW a matter of Islam against the world. They are aiming at world domination. Do not take MY word for it, how would I know? I did not, until I heard it out of their own mouths. Read Hezbullah's Secret weapon at CNN.com. At the end you will find that a SUNI Muslim states just that. It is not only terrorists against the world, it is muslim against muslim. But, I may be wrong of course, in which case we will all find out, including me. Syria still speaks of the "occupation" of "Palestine" which needs to be "resolved", meaning all of Israel must be wiped OFF the map. Mahmood Ahmadinejad has said that more precisely. Almost a year after Israel has vacated Gaza, they still speak of the Gaza "occupation". Islam does NOT allow other religions in their regions. Take a look - CNN has had an interactive map up of the muslim "occupation" of Europe the last few weeks, maybe you can still find it, and then look at all the territory Islam has which includes most of Asia. Again, the Pope has asked for reciprocity on religious matters. He has also called for a cease fire. I am no christian, nor am I a Catholic. Getting angry at what someone writes, and getting personal, is NOT going to help you if the U.S. gets "wiped off the map". The "terrorists" are not poor, oppressed, landless people. They have 23 countries, four holy sites, fully trained and equipped militia, and all the oil money in the world. Israel was attacked inside her sovereign country in the North and the South, simultaneously. It was a deliberate provocation. The abducted soldiers were called by the "terrorists" *Prisoners of War*, and Hassan Nasrallah declared that Hezbullah was ready and eager for an all out and open war. I am sure the text, spoken by him, will still be available somewhere on the Internet. Go take a look. Of course, everyone else, except the jews and Israelis, when they are attacked and murdered and taken captive sits around and says: "thank you, heh, that sure felt good", now let me hand you my daughter.

7/24/2006  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

History and Irony:

The Israeli Ambassador to Germany, Shimon Stein, demands that Germans applaud Israel's atrocities in Lebanon.

The Central Council of Jews in Germany
(defined at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zentralrat_der_Juden) demands Germans' unquestioning solidarity with Israel in the killing of Lebanese civilians.

See "Auge um Auge, Zahn um Zahn" at
http://www.sueddeutsche.de/ausland/artikel/251/81170/

in German.


A.fornow

7/24/2006  
Anonymous Rosethejet said...

I am fascinated by the people who seem to me, to give the impression that Israel does not have the right to defend itself.

Defend of course being a relative definition of course.

BUT If Iraq had indeed actually done something to us, say they had sent in people to murder and then kidnap some of our soldiers, would our response be:

Forget about it, it's just a couple of people?

Invade Iraq?

What should we have done?

Now remember I am as against this idiotic war Bush* has started as anyone because it was based up cherry picked information and for all intents and purposes LIES.

BUT as I said, look at it the same way the Israeli's have done.

They are surrounded by nations that do nothing but call for their total extermination. The unreasoning and insane hatred of Jews by the Muslim world is beyond all normal reason.

For those who seem to think Isreal should simply lay down and let the Muslims do what they will to them, I can only shake my head in disbelief.

As for Hezbollah keeping Lebanon from being a puppet of Israel or the U.S.? Come on you don't really believe that do you? Is Saudi Arabia a puppet of either country? More like the U.S. dances to the tune of Arabia. Same with the other countries.

Why was Hamas elected? Why not? BUT that doesn't change the fact their avowed goal is to wipe Israel off the map. Iran has said they want to push the Jews into the sea.

So tell me what should Israel's response have been? They are, as pointed out, in a no win situation so you might as well hit them and hit them hard. These Hezbollah and Hamas are not even interested in giving Israel the right to even exist.

So I have a problem with any dead in a war, but Israel fights for it's very existence every day and one more thing. Why don't the Arab countries move the palestinians into another part of the Mid East and let them have that?

No, never happen. Why, because these people thrive on hate and violence.

7/25/2006  
Anonymous Rosethejet said...

OH and one last thought for the day.

The eastern world, it is exploding
Violence flarin’, bullets loadin’
You’re old enough to kill, but not for votin’
You don’t believe in war, but what’s that gun you’re totin’
And even the Jordan River has bodies floatin’

But you tell me
Over and over and over again, my friend
Ah, you don’t believe
We’re on the eve of destruction.

Don’t you understand what I’m tryin’ to say
Can’t you feel the fears I’m feelin’ today?
If the button is pushed, there’s no runnin’ away
There’ll be no one to save, with the world in a grave
Take a look around ya boy, it's bound to scare ya boy

And you tell me
Over and over and over again, my friend
Ah, you don’t believe
We’re on the eve of destruction.

Yeah, my blood’s so mad feels like coagulatin’
I’m sitting here just contemplatin’
I can’t twist the truth, it knows no regulation.
Handful of senators don’t pass legislation
And marches alone can’t bring integration
When human respect is disintegratin’
This whole crazy world is just too frustratin’

And you tell me
Over and over and over again, my friend
Ah, you don’t believe
We’re on the eve of destruction.

Think of all the hate there is in Red China
Then take a look around to Selma, Alabama
You may leave here for 4 days in space
But when you return, it’s the same old place
The poundin’ of the drums,
the pride and disgrace
You can bury your dead, but don’t leave a trace
Hate your next-door neighbor, but don’t forget to say grace

And… tell me
over and over and over and over again, my friend
You don’t believe We’re on the eve Of destruction
Mm, no no, you don’t believe
We’re on the eve of destruction.

Just something to chew on.

Night all.

7/25/2006  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

July17th,

Totally agree. It's all about who profits from this and it's easy to see where the money points. Time to bring down the FEDS people! And I just saw this Video w/ Noam Chomsky, about what the Media isn't telling us.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QKq38COoTG8

Israel is obviously BAD, very BAD.

7/25/2006  
Blogger darwinita said...

Well spoken Dr Rost. I'm a big fan. I nominally support the concept of the Jewish homeland, but both sides are acting like assh*les. Then again, so're we.

7/25/2006  
Blogger beeta said...

Rose,
I was going to try and explain my point of view the best I could, then I ran across this article and thought, I couldn't do any better than this...so check it out and let me know your thoughts.
"Hezballah: I Don't want to love you, But I do" by Cecilia Lucas at www.commondreams.org
p.s.
I can't remeber where I read this statement or by who but something like...
You can read all about it, you can see all the pictures or videos or TV programs and even hear first person accounts of it, BUT unless you are standing in the Sistine Chapel, smelling the air, hearing the sounds, seeing the magnifisant architecture and art, letting history fill your heart and mind and imagination, you have only at best a vague idea.

7/25/2006  
Anonymous Rosethejet said...

Like I said, I think this war is pointless and both sides are behaving badly and it's the innocents who pay the price for the folly of war.

BUT you still have not answered my question.

What should Israel have done when Hezbollah literaly invaded their country, killed several soldiers and kidnapped two others?

Overkill response?

NO doubt, but on the other hand, what should Israel have done?

What would you do?

7/25/2006  
Anonymous July17th said...

"Anonymous said...
July17th,

Totally agree. It's all about who profits from this and it's easy to see where the money points. Time to bring down the FEDS people! And I just saw this Video w/ Noam Chomsky, about what the Media isn't telling us.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QKq38COoTG8

Israel is obviously BAD, very BAD."



There may be some truth to Mr. Chomsky's statements as is evidenced by Proffessor Dershowitz already being in the attack-rebuttle mode.


Israel certainly has their own, horrific, problems. Talk about being 'between a rock and a hard-spot'. My heart goes out to them as some are probably my ancestor's children and lived through the Holocaust.


But being right is NOT a one-time decision based on past experiences. It's a constant battle that we all must face each day of our lives, with different degrees of success. It's how we evolve!


I want to say that Israel is right, but, I have to take a more cautious view, like the good Doctor, that both sides are NOT RIGHT.


I remember when in college, one of my classmates was an Israeli woman. She had served her two years manditory military service as a civil defense radar operator.


I asked her how she felt about her country being surrounded by so many people with feelings of ill-will toward her.


It was a harrowing job for her. She said that she was in constant fear of attack, and what's worse, that (because distances were so close) she constantly worried about being too slow or too lax in her interpitive decisions and could cause a national disaster!


She made an inpression on me that has lasted for my life time. Who would want to live in such a dangerous place?


And she has never returned to her home because she doesn't want to live constant state of seige.


I don't know if anyone over there is really RIGHT. The story of western civilization has always been "divide, conquer, absorb". The Jews have had that cultural experience imposed on them for at least 5,000 years, and they became very good at maintaining their core identity.


But now, they have their own country, and many do not feel they want to be flexable any longer. Is it right?


I have to seek a higher power for that answer. I hope a solution, that appeals to a majority, can be found in that region of the world, so much is riding on it!

7/25/2006  
Blogger beeta said...

Rose,
I will answer you.
-Isreal should stop colonizing.
-Israel should stop hiding behind big brother.
-Israel should stop pretending that they did not steal lands from their niegbors by force and then subjected the population to humiliation.
-Israel should stop being a Jewish State and allow all people to be citizens of the same rank.
-Israel should have embraced a Hamas deal to recognize the state of Israel before the kidnapping in Palestine and Lebanon accured and even after that, they should have offered the olive branch of peace and taken the high road which would have dis-armed the hardliners, if not literaly but practically.
-Israel should stop making Arabs pay the price for Nazi atrocities.
-Israel should not do the bidding of Neocons for them.
If you think I am out of my mind, then read the articles by Jewish writers living in Israel in H'aarz.

7/25/2006  
Blogger shooter said...

With the benefit of time and reflection we now know what Hitler and his movement were planning, starting in the late 1920's and culminating in 1945. Aided by appeasers, ignorant hand ringers, moral crusaders, religious sychophants, wishers/hopers, and other assorted dunces, no one was as surprised as he by how easily he could dupe the majority of the world's population, until it was too late. 150,000,000 dead, countless more injured, many who's injuries would have made death a more humane choice. The psychological damage to the survivors was such that most, to this day, can not talk about it. My father was one such survivor, and thank God, he did talk about it, but only to me. He was the smartest, intuitive man I have ever known. And I've been fortunate to know and been friends with hundreds of the most educated, experienced, and accomplished people in this country, and elsewhere. After 20 years as a battlefield surgeon, he, and we, emigrated from war-torn Europe to America where, having to do his internship and residency all over again, he switched specialties to psychiatry. He wanted to know what the human mind was all about. Instead of opening a practice on Park Ave. in New York City and getting rich, he went to upstate New York and worked with thousands of the sickest psychotics and schizophrenics in the land..... America's rejects. He also worked with our govenment studying the effects of prisoners of war and their torture and brainwashing. He also worked with our courts, academia, and various, assorted research centers. He never made any money, but the State did provide for housing and food. His work was his life and you might say he knew more about the human condition than just about anyone in the country, maybe the world. (In my humble, unbiased opinion)

Before he died, about 20 years ago, we were discussing the situation in the middle-east when he told me, " son, Israel could disappear tomorrow and nothing would improve." He said Israel was the Sudetenland, Austria, and Czechslovakia of this movement, Islamic Fundamentalism. He explained how Islam resembled a cult more than a religion. While all religions have their customs and rituals, only Islam requires their devotees to stop what they're doing and, five times a day, bow to the floor in robotic supplication.......a classic technique in brainwashing. The next step, blind obedience to an Authority (the mullahs) is a given. The mutation of Islam that has taken hold in the middle-east today, wahhabiism, is the most virulent and absolutist in it's history. (It may surprise you that Muslims and Jews lived, schooled, played, and worked together peacefully for centuries, prior to the birth of this mutation several hundred years ago.) Their mission, taught in their schools from infancy, is the conversion or death of all the infidels on the planet. Since their goal in life is the elimination of all non-believers, and since their system also precludes any hope for advancement and competion with the progressing civilized societies, they are taught that their bodies are the weapons of choice, to be sacrificed for Allah. They are ordered to reproduce as often as possible so as to offset the West's superior technology and equipment. (One reason why Israel knows a "right of return" would be suicidal for themselves.) The difference between soldiers and civilians is a western concept, not adhered to by them, but used by them for the intended and, obviously successful propaganda victory they are enjoying today. Would Americans permit soldiers to use their families as shields to hide themselves and their weaponry? The Hezbollah not only use them in earnest, but assist the Israelis in targeting these sites for for the intended propaganda value, and to get on the evening CNN broadcast. Hezbollah, Hamas, Islamic Jihad, and all the rest are the SA "brownshirts" of 1933 Germany, followed by the SS blackboots.

Much as the concentration camps and the "final solution" would have been impossible without the approval or, at least, acquiecense of a majority of the German population, these killers of Hezbollah are only the visible head of the apocalypse coming our way.
Do we have to wait until our wives or husband's heads are butchered off in front of our eyes? Or maybe our children's eyes ripped out and fed to their dogs? Did you know that the penalty demanded in the Quaran for a wife who is insolent to her husband is "hanging by her tongue over brimstone for all eternity?" Baloney? Ancient myth? Check out the packed stadiums where muslim women are killed by the Taliban for these types of infractions. Stoning to Death of women is being carried out in Saudi Arabia today!

As I write this, they are winning this war. It's not over yet, but it's late in the game. Thanks to our President, a stable and secular Iraq, is now governed by Shiite fundamentalists and is being consolidated as a subsidiary of Shiite Iran, run by that enlightened statesman President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad. As an offering of peace and brotherhood he vowed to "wipe Israel off the face of the earth" followed by the United States, Great Britain, and all their allies. With Shiite Syria, an eager participant, the "deranged crescent" is solidifying. Lebanon, that tragic and struggling state, after expelling the Syrians, could have benefitted so much for it's people by friendship and trade with Israel, but Iran, aware of this, dispatched Hezbollah to form a parasitic Government within a Government to see to it that that would never happen. Sitting on vast oil riches, do these "leaders" collaborate on combining their recources for the betterment of their people? I won't insult your intelligence asking for the answer. Pakistan will fall soon to the crazies and the only question now is, will Iran get "the bomb" first, or will North Korea trade it for some those oil riches?

With their cells multiplying in wait around the world, Armagedon is a certainty. The stupidest comment of the Right in this country is "we haven't been attacked since 9/11." I swear I can hear Osama roar in laughter from his cave every time he hears that one.

Finally, and this will be the first and last post I do on this subject, I am not going to debate anyone on the millions of pieces of isolated minutia, I've read on this blog and elsewhere. Unlike Hitler, these monsters have told us to our faces, in public, what's coming. I believe them. And I will spend my time, as I tried to do in 1967 when these "peacefull people" attacked in unison, a speck of sand in the desert,
to tell the truth and find enough people who's heads are upright, clear thinking, and realistic. Really, people, God never intended for you to go through life contorted, seeing the world through the prism of an anal canal.

7/25/2006  
Anonymous Rosethejet said...

I will answer you.
-Isreal should stop colonizing.

So when Isreal was attacked, they should have simply laid down? When Egypt in complicity with the other muslim countries conspired to attack and destroy Israel, they should have done nothing?

When they beat back the invaders and took over part of the land of the invaders THEY WERE WRONG? Sorry but would you have felt the same way if Egypt and the other countries had beaten Israel and wiped the Jewish state off the map (their avowed goal) would you then ge saying, "Oh well to the victors the spoils?"

-Israel should stop hiding behind big brother.

Hiding what behind big brother? That the U.S. is an ally is a bad thing? That the U.S. should abandon Israel to the Muslims?

-Israel should stop pretending that they did not steal lands from their niegbors by force and then subjected the population to humiliation.

UMm you mean when the neigbors planned an invasion and were amassing troops along the borders for the express purpose of finishing Hitler's job? SO if the Muslim world had indeed wiped the Jewish state from the face of the Earth, it would have been okay with you? I ask because you seem to have bought into the Muslim world of lies hook line and sinker.

As for the humiliation thing? Well one does wonder just what is happening about that. See Hamas and the rest of the Palestine people are NOT just peace loving individuals who if Israel stopped their so called humiliation of the Palestinian people would be the bestest of friends and neighors and they would all just get together on Sundays for mutual dinners and dancing?

Please.

The Muslim world will NEVER accept living in peace with Israel. NEVER. They have stated over and over and over ad nauseum that they want nothing less than the complete and total destruction of Isreal and all Jewish people.

-Israel should stop being a Jewish State and allow all people to be citizens of the same rank.

Yeah sure and all the other people would be just pleased as punch to live in peach and harmoney with the Jews. So you are saying once again, Israel should cease to exist and let the Muslims control them? That Jews should not have a say so in their lives and that the overwhelming majority of Muslims would treat all Jews as equals and things would be hunky dory?

Seriously?

Or do you think the Jews should not exist either?

-Israel should have embraced a Hamas deal to recognize the state of Israel before the kidnapping in Palestine and Lebanon accured and even after that, they should have offered the olive branch of peace and taken the high road which would have dis-armed the hardliners, if not literaly but practically.

You have got to be kidding me. Hamas HATES the jewish people. Hamas has publicly vowed to wipe Isreal off the face of the Earth and you think Israel should roll over and let Hamas dictate the rules? Hamas has NEVER said they would recognize Isreal as a state. All they want is the complete extermination of Jews.

Israel said if the soldiers were returned then there would be no further problem. So whose fault is it that the soldiers were NOT returned? Whose fault is it that Hezbollah crossed the border, murdered soldiers and kidnapped two other?

Israel has stated publicly that if Palestine and Hamas renounced terrorism, violence and other means of disrespect, then they would get along fine. Hamas told Israel to go to hell. So what if the people elected Hamas, We "Elected' Bush*, that doesn't mean it was a good decision and time has proven that beyond a shadow of a doubt.

So what does Hamas do? They tunnel under the bridge murder and kidnap soldiers. AND whose fault was that? Israel for trying to protect it's citizens from the non stop terror attacks in Israel. From buses with children being blown up? I have yet to see any Israeli attack that was not provoked. But they do respond.

They understand that they are not dealing with people who turn the other cheek. They are dealing with people who HATE them. And of whom if you let get away with one thing will simply get worse and worse.

The Mid East is not like any other place on Earth.

-Israel should stop making Arabs pay the price for Nazi atrocities.

With all due respect that doesn't even make any sense. The Arab world simply wants to finish what Hitler started. Or are you going to say that Muslims around the world LOVE the Jewish people but that Jews simply refuse to accept that love?

Arabs, and all other Middle Eastern countries want nothing less than the total extermination of the Jewish state.

-Israel should not do the bidding of Neocons for them.

I'm not a neo con and I support Israel completely. Neo Cons were not in charge when all the attacks against Israel stated back from day one. You are simply spouting the talking points of those who are against Israel.

If you think I am out of my mind, then read the articles by Jewish writers living in Israel in H'aarz.

No one says people don't have their opinons, but just as many and perhaps more people support what Israel does and those people all live in Israel.

7/26/2006  
Anonymous July17th said...

Such good comments reflecting very insightful thinking!

The question was brought up "what should Israel have done to prevent this war?"
I was reminded of the movie "Gandhi". It was the time before the forming of a separate Pakistan and Hindus and Muslims were engaged in bitter fighting. A Hindu came to him, asking for forgiveness for his killing a Muslim family save for their small child. Gandhi told the man to take the child into his family and raise him as his own son. But, he told him, you must raise him to be a good Muslim!

Until people of one religion can love and respect anothers religion I don't believe religious truth can truely be understood.

7/26/2006  
Blogger shooter said...

Rose, I don't know what to say. You took my breath away. Simple questions, right there in front of us, no ambiguity, no nuance, so basic and clear anyone from an idiot to a genius would say, "of course." And yet we don't trust ourselves to receive input from so many sources, with all the infinite spins and angles of their agendas, and sort them out, separate fact from bullshit, and come to reasonable conclusions.
The "mushroom cloud" that George and Condi warned us about was not true, but only in direction (Iraq.) But it's coming. And with most of the rhetoric pouring out now from so many places, working so successfully, to divert our attention from the real, mortal danger civilized society faces, as we speak, I can only hope the blindness lifts in time.

7/26/2006  
Blogger liberal elite said...

What should Israel have done when Hezbollah literaly invaded their country, killed several soldiers and kidnapped two others?

What has Lebanon done since being attacked by Israel?

Could Isreal have gone to the Lebanese government and collaborated on a resolution? Isreal did stay out of Gulf War I even though Iraq tried to bring them into it.

7/26/2006  
Blogger beeta said...

Well,
Do we believe in secular government or don't we?
Is a Moslim Government any worse than a Christian government or a Jewish one?
Do we believe in Democracy?
The last I heard, a Democracy was a system where the majority rules and the rights of minorities are protected. By your estimate Israel is not a Democracy unless you allow an exception to the rule of secular government.
As shooter pointed out, Jews, Christians and Moslims lived together all over ME for thousands of years untill a Jewish state was established.
I do not believe in making exceptions, it undermines the whole idea of freedom, equality, common good etc.
Why do we here in the US do not like the idea of the Christain right taking over our government?
Why do I object to the idea of US aiding Israel? Why do you object to the idea of Iran or Syria aiding Hezballa or Hamas? Isn't that the same thing?
Is killing on one side better than the killing the other side does?
You can't have your cake and eat it too. Either the same rules apply to all or they don't.
BTW, I do not think any of these has anything to do with religion. Religion is being used, as it always has been, by the ruling class to subjugate the stupid, gullible masses into doing what is essentially not in thier best interest. I am not Jewish, Christain or Moslim ( I am well versed on all three religions ) and I dislike (abhore) Pat Robertson, Khomeini, and Natenyahu with the same degree.
Blindness is caused by many blinders such as personal experience, indoctrination, religious affiliation, nationalism, lack of credible and truthful information and a host of others.
I have less of them than many.

7/26/2006  
Blogger beeta said...

BTW,
I read a comment on a site where this guy who lived in South Africa was saying that whenever he hears of a comparison made between Israel and south Africa at the time of Apartide (where a minority none natives rule over a majority natives), he always wants to point out that, the South African government never treated the natives as badly as Israel has treated the Palestinians.

7/26/2006  
Blogger beeta said...

And since I answered questions posed to me (all be it not apperently satisfactorily) could I have one question answered?
How does bombing the UN monitores constitute defending yourself?
And the answer is not, it was accidental. Accourding to a CNN report, the unit telephoned the Israeli command at least 6 times and reported bombs being dropped close to their location and was assured that they were safe before they were bombed. Does that have anything to do with Kofi of the UN pushing for ceasefire backed by most countries in the world? Or the distaste US has for the UN and it's refusal to obey the US demands (Bolton anyone?) and Israel's way of flicking the thumb to UN by killing their monitores?
What horrible act of injustice, inhumanity, evil does Israel have to commit before the discomfort becomes too unbearable to hold on to the idea of an apartide/undemoctratic/historically unprecedented statehood created to rid anti-semitic Europe of their unwanted/despised/half murdered Jews and planting them smack in the middle of colonized/betrayed/partitioned Middle East with the promise of statehood and then abandoned only to be kept alive as the tool of US Imperialistic ambitions, where they are sure to be once and for all thrown in the sea after WWII?
Or Jewish gullibitity surpasses Chritian and Moslim gulliblity?

7/26/2006  

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