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Peter Rost, M.D., is a former Pfizer Marketing Vice President providing services as a medical device and drug expert witness and pharmaceutical marketing expert. Judge Sanders: "The court agrees with defendants' view that Dr. Rost is a very adept and seasoned expert witness." He is also the author of Emergency Surgery, The Whistleblower and Killer Drug. You can reach him on rostpeter (insert symbol) Please read the terms of use agreement and privacy policy for this blog carefully.

Huffington Post In a Panicky Retreat

I didn't expect to continue to write about the Huffington Post Troll Scandal, but the fall-out continues.

First, after I had unmasked the HuffPo Troll they locked me out from the site, which in the Internet world means that you are fired.

Then, they did what I had recommended, and Jonah Peretti declared that "The staff will not post any critical comments in the future. --JP"

And now they have just deleted all "Readers' favorite comments" and removed the button to vote for a favorite comment.

Arianna stated "We've looked at the data logs and Yaco-Mink's comment got the most "best of" votes from different, verifiable IP addresses. There was no manipulation."

So of course there was no reason to disable this system, since it was fair and impervious to manipulation.

Not so. The fact that "Readers' favorite comments" have been deleted can mean only two things. HuffPuff learned the system was easy to game, which many readers also showed in their replies to this site. Or HuffPuff couldn't stand all the comments criticizing my termination being voted to the top. Or both.

No matter what is going on here, HuffPuff is in an uncoordinated, panicky, retreat mode; rarely seen in the blogging world.

The irony of all this is that HuffPuff partner Jonah Peretti is supposed to be an expert in "viral marketing" and he didn't stand a chance when bloggers and readers he had intended to "viral market" using spam e-mails turned on him like a tsunami.

In conclusion, the juveniles running HuffPuff have made several serious errors in judgment, errors a professional organization with more experienced managers would have been less likely to make.

These were my parting words to HuffPuff:

"Seriously, I have loved working with you, and I just have to tell you personally, since I have done marketing and crisis management for my entire live; HuffPo has made a critical, amateurish error in judgment. You really need to get professional advice."

Perhaps the PR and advertising professionals at the WPP Group and JWT will now help them clean up their mess.


Anonymous Anonymous said...

I forgot. Arianna is a co-host of Left, Right, and Center on KCRW. It's on Fridays from 2:30-3:00pm. If they ever let audience members call in, we can all call in and question her on-air!!!

Anonymous TrollzRevil said...

"Yaco-Mink's comment got the most "best of" votes from different, verifiable IP addresses. There was no manipulation."

Is that so Arianna? Well, I haven't used a "verifiable" IP address while posting at Huffpo for the past 3 months thanks to Anonymizer. A life-long Democrat and liberal, for the life of me I don't know why I was banned but I can guess.

I don't suppose Yaco-Mink being their tech nerd has *ever* heard of IP spoofing, nor would he have been smart enough to cover his ass on that one.

In short,the IP addresses mean nothing and therefore her rationale for proclaiming Yaco "innocent" is faulty at best.

It does appear Arianna's site is still in panic mode about all this.

I'm not happy to see it either because Huffpo *could* have been a contender.

Their problem is not with "Reader's Favorite" comments. Their problem is with trolls, and their inability or unwillingness to deal with them - some of whom apparently work for Huffington Post.

And even if they don't work for Arianna, her tacit approval of these troll's "contributions" speaks volumes.

Anonymous TrollzRevil said...

As I type this.. 7:15pm EST 6/27/06, there are *no* reader's comments appearing on Huffpo at all.

Technical glitch? Maybe. Who knows?

Anonymous Anonymous said...

It's back up but things aren't happy in Arianna-Land. Here are two posts from *very* frequent Huffpo blogger/commentors:

You know, I've been looking at some of the dumbass things I posted about today and I realized what a total waste of my time this is.

So instead of wasting my time -- and yours -- I think I'm just going to return to my pre-Huffpo life.

Adios, muchachos.
By: californiamike on June 27, 2006 at 07:39pm

My instincts are similar. HuffPo has become a metaphor for what is wrong with this country.
By: olivia on June 27, 2006 at 07:42pm

And these are the liberals. Soon the only ones left will be the trolls.

Incidentally, I *tried* to make a post complaining about this troll whom I'll quote:

I know you Negroes
are cock suckers-but that does not mean you have to follow arianna into hell

kill all liberal Negroes and sodomize them

why are all liberals cock suckers?

By: azom on June 27, 2006 at 06:10pm
Flag: [ flagged ]

My comment complaining about this (and other similar posts) never appeared.

Anonymous Rosethejet said...

Funny thing, but I agree, that maybe, just maybe this will be the start of a lame duck Huffingpost.

I've gone there a few times to read the news and look at some of the posts and they are all exactly the same with the exact same people fighting each other which leads me to believe they are all in the same room.

Things really stink over there. It's a shame another Huffingtonpost type outfit can't be done.

What I liked best about the place was that is was SUPPOSED to be a liberal haven where we could talk about the bad guys in the ReThug party and how they were the HO's for the Corporate PIMP'S who controlled congress.

THEN the trollz started up and we are talking about serious trolling. At first I was pretty sure they were GOP paid, but then as this scandal unfolded I became convinced the trollz were of the homegrown variety.

What else I like was the format for looking and reading news that was obviously slanted towards liberals but hopefully an honest slant.

Turns out that isn't true either. Sometimes the slant is dishonest and that is not good for liberals/progressives everywhere.

The only other famous outlet I could ever hope to see replace Huffingpost would be VANITY FAIR.

They have a LOT OF MONEY and have a lousy site right now.

BUT a Vanity Fair site set up simalar to Huffingpost would bring down Huffingpost overnight IF they stayed honest and worried more about integrity and less about being a cororate whore.

I still think your theory Doc, about pfizer and the pharma industry wanting you off is not far feteched at all. I would have no problem believing that conspiracy at all.

Money is a powerful incentive to throw your integrity out the window.

A well financed site could bring Arianna down within days.

Vanity Fair could do that and Arianna would have a hard time bullshitting her way out of that downfall.

Anonymous Anonymous said...

All the comments on HuffPo now are sooooo nice. It's scarey. Not one dissenting opinion really and not one mention of Dr. Rost. Something really stinks.

Blogger beeta said...

"Snowball" has a comment on Arianna's post asking what happened to the favorites button and how he hopes she is not going to have nested threads. It is a nice comment and very civil but basically asks what happened to it and how it was useful.

Blogger beeta said...

Hey Doc,
Good interview!
I just listened to it.
I should have my husband listen to it because I keep telling him how big this is and he has this blank look on his face like I am dilusional.

Anonymous GARY said...

"I'm proud that you allow honest discourse on your site rather then the self-serving skew so many other sites use. Keep up the good work you do for the betterment of us."

By: RadicalRepublican on June 23, 2006 at 10:50am

Gag reflex! Obsequious rat bastard. I feel a virgin sacrafice can't be too long in coming. What a joke AH turned out o be.

Blogger beeta said...

someone help me with this...
I am trying to understand this "virul" marketing. I have some idea but the picture is not clear.
1-After the pop-up ads got so annoying and software was developed to block them, advertisers were looking for a new way of getting to internet users.
Yes or no?
2-I have seen these ads/whatevers on many sites where they ask you to vote or participate in some online survey. But when you do it ends up not being what you thought it was.
Is it related to this "virul" marketing?
3- I have heard that you get these e-mails and you are suckered into passing them on (I don't have any personal experience with that).
Is it kinda like the old chain-mails from the past?
4- How does exactly "roadblocking" work other than you become the exclusive advertiser to an audience.
Is there something wrong with that?
5- how does increasing traffic to a site work with this "virul" thing. It seems like increased traffic , increases exposure but I don't see how that is so geniuos.

Anonymous thebronxzoo said...

I actually second beeta. I would like a bit of an explanation of what exactly viral marketing is beyond something that's contagious on the Internet.

Thanks guys.

Anonymous Anonymous said...

I agree with Gary. Arriana Huffington and her staff are jokes. TrollRevilz and Rosethejet, I agree with your statements, that the "trolls" like azom and others are homegrown, and probably staffers that actually work for Huffington Post. I say this after reading that "" site. Comedy it ain't.

Anonymous Anonymous said...

And, to add to my above comment... I too have been banned from making comments on huffpo. It's like writing them is a waste of time. As is that entire site.

Blogger Janine said...

Viral marketing means getting people to talk about and pass on your marketing message. You do the initial work, and then people take it from there, doing your marketing work for free. Those videos from Jibjab are a great example, except that they aren't selling anything.

So what JWT was trying to do was to get people who read HuffPo, who they clearly were told are trendsetting and hip, to look at the commercials they posted, think they are way cool, and forward them to their friends, who would forward them to their friends, etc. JP was trying to kickstart the effort by attempting to get other bloggers who appeal to the right demographic to look at them and hopefully like them enough to write about them as something cool, not as a marketing tool.

To answer your points:
1. Yes, advertisers are always looking for ways to get people to pay attention to them; no form of online ads has ever been very effective.

2. No, those are just sleazy, bait-and-switch ads.

3. It depends on what you mean exactly. There are e-mail chain letters that are exactly like the old ones. Then there are software viruses (completely unrelatd to viral marketing) which get onto your computer via infected emails or websites and then will send themselves out to everyone in your address book. I think that's what you're thinking of; it's a virus, but not viral marketing.

4. Roadblocking is just buying up all the advertising space on a site. No, there isn't anything wrong with it as far as I know.

5. In this case, the viral marketing was intended to create "buzz" for JWT and show that they aren't old and stodgy after all. It would also have increased viewership for HuffPo, because people would have been coming to the site to view the videos, but that is more of a secondary benefit in this case because the entity doing the marketing was JWT.

Does any of that help? I'm not in marketing *shudder* but I do build websites for a living so I get exposed to some of this stuff whether I want to be or not. :)

Blogger beeta said...

Hey Doc,
In the old days, when chatrooms were new, it was like it is here now. Then the trolls came and then it became a meat market.
One could ask a question, have a pleasnat chat about what mattered to them, hear some good discussions and feel like you belonged to a caring and supportive community.
I am enjoying this, knowing it won't last.
Back to my question before. Anyone who can explain this "virul" "virel" marketing thing, please shed some light on the subject.

Blogger beeta said...

Yes you are very helpful.
And I appologize for not catching on.
I am a fan of analogies, because they tend to draw paralles and make an ambigious situation more familliar.
Could you put this THP situation in paralles or analogies to shed some light on this "virul" marketing thing?

Anonymous Rosethejet said...

Janine, you do websites?

Cool. Done any we know?

I sort of understand what the whole "viral" thing is but it does seem like a lame way to do advertising unless you have something so outrageously cool that you have to share it, but that happens rarely.

I can't think of anything more UNCOOL than emailing an ad to someone I know.

Maybe an enemy. But nothing like a return email to slow that down.

Blogger beeta said...

ohhh good...I don't feel so stupid now...
TNX Rose
I really want to understand how it supossed to work.

Blogger Janine said...

Hmm... I like analogies too, but nothing is really springing to mind. Maybe this is too obvious, but the reason it's called viral marketing is that it spreads just like the common cold. You have a cold, you go out and sneeze near someone, and now they have a cold. Each person who carries the cold around with them infects a bunch of people, who in turn infect a bunch of people, so pretty soon everyone you know is sick.

I guess another one is feral cats, or bunnies - from one male/female pair comes an amazing number of offspring in a very short period of time.

This approach *does* work - I believe that Apple and VW have both had ads that people liked well enough to email them to their friends, and I'm sure there have been others. Some ads are so creative that they cease being ads and are primarily regarded as art. However, the key here is that the ad has to be that good on it's own; if it needs to be goosed, like JP was trying to do, then odds are it's not going to work.

Rose, our highest profile sites, for this crowd anyway, are The New York Review of Books and Granta. In the past we've done work for Greenpeace, and we also have a bunch of small sites, mostly environmental non-profits.

Anonymous Anonymous said...

Heres a present for you guys....

Its Love's email address.

Blogger beeta said...

You know, I read an article a while back about intellectual property and "pattent" laws. It was saying that the US is trying to pull some kind of scam to controll future advancement in health and other fields by buying the rights to it now thru pattents.
I am not sure I undestand the implications but Love's website sure sounds like it is connected to it.

Blogger beeta said...

I remember the Apple AD and I liked it. I thought it was sharp. But I would never e-mail it to anyone.
I hate most ads,,Once in a while I like an AD, I might mention it to someone in a "do you know the Ad that....." , but I would not ever e-mail it to someone.

Blogger Janine said...

Beeta, I'm guessing you are over 30, right? This seems to be something that is particularly hot with the same crowd that loves AIM and text messaging (a couple of trends that I still haven't managed to become enthusiastic about at the ripe old age of 42).

Of course, since that's the same age group advertisers are hot to reach, it makes sense that they would want to try this. They just don't seem to understand that it requires a really great ad to pull it off.

A few years ago there was a Superbowl ad that showed some cowboys who were herding cats out in the Great Plains. It was absolutely hilarious and if I had run across it online I sure would have sent it to a few of my cat-loving friends. Only problem is I have no clue who the ad was for... so I'm not sure how well that actually worked out for them.

Blogger beeta said...

You are right!
I am over 30.
Actually I am over your ripe age of 42.
I do have a perfect shoe size though... 7.
Ohhh and O-negative blood type, I hear it is the bomb when it comes to donating.
I am trying really hard to get this "virul" thing though. I am usually bright and a fast learner. I am frustrated bcz I don't get it.
This may shed some light on the subject for you... an eon ago when I was in college I took Economics 101 and dropped it 3 times. I was making A's in all my other coarses.
The whole subject didn't make any sense to me. I ended up with this Prof. from Nigeria and I told him my dilema and he sat me down and explained it to me in real terms. I got it and passed his class with an A.
My point is that, somethings don't make any sense to me. It could be that I don't see the logic behind it or...
well...I could be ...totally not with it..
Just kidding..
I am listening though....

Anonymous Rosethejet said...


That is the trick. The ad has to be cooler than just about anything and so far I rarely if ever see anything like that. Seems like the so called movement to make viral ads cool enough to email is sort of like the technology bubble a while back.

Sort of a hope that worked out to be nothing like it was supposed to be. Thus costing a gazillion bucks to venture capitalists.

Seems to me the advertisers at Huffingpost aren't exactly getting their money's worth by any means.

Not by any means at all.

I've found myself going to Huffingpost less and less in the past several days to the point where I now skim the place for anything I think might be interesting.

The troll warz are beyond all comprehension and make me have no doubts that Huffingpost may actually be on BOTH sides of the troll wars.

It has become a dishonest site and as such there is a stench when I go there.

I wonder if Arianna will ever figure out she has become that which she has fought?

Blogger Stonecastle said...

Viral marketing is advertisers attempt to use (co-opt?) the way information spreads across the internet. Have you seen the bit over at about the Diet Coke and Mentos? It's a perfect example of the data flow phenomenon. A few people saw it, and told people they knew. From there, it's like the old shampoo commercials, you tell two friends, and then they tell two friends, and so on, and so on... Soon, it's on Yahoo's front page. Advertiser's try to take advantage of this by designing advertisements that don't appear to be ads, hoping that consumers will pick it up and tell their friends about it. It's also called guerilla marketing, because of the stealth nature of the ad.

Blogger Stonecastle said...

To prove the point, how many of you went to to check that out?

Anonymous Anonymous said...

I got banned yet again for posting what I did on page 1 of the comments at the following blog entry (as censorship is still very much alive at


Blogger Rev. Joker Cross, KSC said...

Do you know when you see a funny commercial and you tell your friends about it? That's also viral marketing. You're talking about the commercial with other people, therefore you are talking about the product and therefore giving the product a certain amount of exposure to others for free.

Meme: an information pattern, held in an individual's memory, which is capable of being copied to another individual's memory.

Memetics: the theoretical and empirical science that studies the replication, spread and evolution of memes

Such things as catchphrases are memes. Pop culture is loaded with memetics. Saying "d'oh" in the manner of Homer Simpson is a meme. This spreading of information is commonly called "memetic contagion."

When an advertiser makes a commercial intentionally to get people talking about it/emailing it to each other and generally creating a memetic contagion, it is called "viral marketing."

Memetics can also have negative effects on marketing. When a certain name brand becomes so associated with the product that the name brand becomes the WORD for the product, said product can lose it's Trademark Status.

This has happened in the past with items such as "Aspirin" which was once just a brand name of pill much like "Bayer" is. "Rollerblades" are a brand name of in-line skates, but people often refer to ANY in-line skates as "rollerblades". The same applies to "Xerox" as well. In some parts of the country even the word "Coke" is used as a generic for all sodas, as opposed to specifically Coca Cola. Example:

"Give me a coke"

"What kind?"

"Dr. Pepper."
There are many more examples, but you get the idea. I believe "viagra" could at some point face a similar fate easily becoming a catchall word for all impotence drugs.

This is actually enough of a problem that such companies have actually bought advertising space in such magazines as Writer's Digest to actually tell writers to be sure not to use brand names as generic descriptions of a product.

Viral marketing simply takes advantage of the idea that if someone is intrigued enough with a piece of information, they will pass it on to others. Be that information a funny joke or a cool advertisement they saw. And trust me when I say you've probably assisted in one form of viral marketing or another far mor often than you would really believe.

Republican talking points are also, in effect, viral marketing. All this talk about Ann Coulter's book? Viral marketing How many people went out and bought copies that HATE her, just to see what she had to say, thus upping her sales, thus putting more money in her pocket simply because we all sat around talking about the horrible things she says in it?

In closing, viral marketing is a new, fancy phrase for "word of mouth". Only with a more high-tech connotation.

That's about as simple as I go.

And no, I'm not in marketing either.

Blogger Rev. Joker Cross, KSC said...

Here's a great article about generic words that once had trademark status.

Blogger MsMelody said...

rev.joker cross, ksc

Thanks for the lesson. When one isn't in marketing (or psychology), one 'hasn't a clue' about memes or memetics. Of course, when one gets educated about the deviousness used to get into our heads, it's a bit maddening/frightening to think that we have been reduced to a lowest common denominator in order to encourage consumption.

Anyhow--thanks for the post.

Blogger Michael Brereton said...

I have posted a list of comments I could find that yako made on other HuffPo bloggers. It think it makes for an interesting read.


Blogger Peter Rost said...

I'm surprised and amazed at the useful and civilized discussion among the readers on this site and I will try to chime in when I have a chance. But it also takes quite a bit of time to do the posts . . . if any trolls come back, send me an e-mail!

Anonymous Anonymous said...

I may be a bit of an elitist here, but I don't think viral marketing works as well on the liberal mindset as well as it does on the conservative side. I mean, look at the superbowl. Sure liberals watch the superbowl but none of the ones I know coo over the comercials for budwiser like the conservatives do. Viral marketing towards a liberal group would have to be above and beyond the fart jokes or the cutsie frogs, it has to be something artful or incredibly creative - and in the marketing world I think that coming up with something highly creative is more expensive than just advertising the "normal" way.

Of course I could be totaly off base here, I mean liberals are sheep too, don't get me wrong - but I think they are a different kind of sheep than the kind that would e-mail links to ads just because they have a fart joke.


Blogger MsMelody said...

I couldn't find a good place on HuffPo to post and/or say good-bye. So, under the heading of GOP Leaders Introducing Bill to Condemn NYT, I posted the following comment, with the last posted comment appearing at 10:14. Will it be posted? Or censored?

What a good use of taxpayer dollars--another resolution. If NYT behaved illegally--PROSECUTE them. If they did not, and were merely exercising the rights granted by the Constitution, the Legislative members--SHUT UP and take care of business.

And while we're addressing free speech--why has HuffPo gone completely silent on the Peter Rose issue? Is HuffPo censoring our comments, despite advertising to the contrary? Of is HuffPo merely pandering to corporate interests--and duping readers, as seems to be the norm in this country today?

Time of last posted comment 10:14. Will this one be posted?

Blogger beeta said...

OK .....this is totally off subject sorta..
The one site on THP that I got banned from was Suzanne Nossell's site. It happened when she wrote an article (a couple of weeks ago) about "abbas" and how this was his chance to show what a good leader he was by negotiating with the Israelis behind Hamas's back. I wrote that she as usual was clueless and if Abbas did that, it only means he was bought by Israel like Arafat was to be the domestic agent of the Israeli government. And that Isreal has no intention of ever giving back any land and just wants to pretend to negotiate with some phony Palestenian athority to drag things on.
Funny thing is that I am listening to Amy Goodman on Democracy Now, and as Israel invaded Gaza this morning, Amy is interviwing people on both sides and the Palestinian spoksman just said..." Abbas is a bought agent of Isreal and has no respect within Palestinians" and "Israel wants to become an apartide regime ruling over all of Palestine".
The proof of what I said is in that Hamas has already agreed to recognize Isreal, but Hamas is not a phony, so Isreal does not want to negotiate with them.
What a hoot!

Blogger beeta said...

I wonder if I should be offered Suzanne's "fellowship", since I seem to have a better grasp of the situation than she does.

Blogger beeta said...

Back to the current subject of advertising.
My thanks to everyone who took the time to explain this "virul" thing to me. I get it now!
It really is simple ... sort of...
And yes I probably have participated in it before.. although I have never e-mailed anything and never have looked at any ads or pushed any buttons on THP.... that means, they have not been that successful. And anonymous is right... it has to be a really cool ad for me to remeber it or mention it to anyone.
A question.
What is the contagious festival?
I never read any of Arriana's posts on the subject.
Is it related to this "virul" thing?
And was there a contest going onat THP?
If there was, was that an effort to suck readers into participating?

Blogger antishill said...

Michael Brereton's link above truly exposes Yaco-Mink as a shill. In light of the fact that Yaco-Mink's comment was approved on Peretti's own blog in March, all of Peretti's denials reek of obfuscation.

Good work Mike!

Anonymous Rosethejet said...

Yes indeed it has been a fascinating discussion. AND this is what an honest debate/discussion is like.

Not that nonsense that goes on over at Huffingpost. Interestingly I now find myself going here first after my email check to see what is new. I realize the pharma news won't keep me here all day long, but it's interesting that I come here first everyday now.

I think Huffingpost would do even better if they got rid of the troll warz and had intelligent debate there.

I stand by my analogy that Huffingpost has become the Jerry Springer of The Internet because there are some days when I used to watch Jerry that I was convinced this was all made up.

How is traffic these days Doc?

Blogger Rev. Joker Cross, KSC said...

Back on the subject of advertising, I posted this article a while back and this one today, both showing the increasingly intrusive methods advertisers are currently tossing around to get to us, the consumers.

Anonymous July17th said...


You made it @ 10:27!

I wonder if they're using an "auto search", but, only for the first paragraph? Maybe we can develope a sorta code or format to get the infor out there.

I tried to post this on Arianna's NYTs article, with last post @ 2:20pm today. We'll see if this test makes the cut:

"""An insightful remark, Arianna:

""This time, Keller noted that "the government would like us to publish only the official line, and some of our elected leaders tend to view anything else as harmful to the national interest" and ran the story well ahead of Election Day 2006.

It's nice to see that even a MSM leviathan like the Times can learn from its mistakes and course-correct.""

Can the Huffpo apply the same valueable insight and tell us what has happened with Dr. Rost? Has he and other blogger/commenters been censored by the Huffpo editors? Time to come clean like you did with Clooney issue."""

I haven't been banned, yet, but this could do it!


Anonymous Anonymous said...

"Has he and other blogger/commenters been censored by the Huffpo editors?"

To refer to them as editors lends them a certain level of credibility which, based on the available evidence, they do not merit.

Same with referring to them as an online magazine, or newspaper.

What they are is an propagator/aggregator, and compiling site, nothing more.

They make enormous sums of money based mostly off the work of others.

They don't appear to be paying contributing bloggers, and yet themselves take in hundreds of thousands of dollars based on the appeal of those bloggers' works.

One might compare HuffPo to walmart, because truthfully they appear to be the Wal-mart of the Blogosphere. They certainly appear to take more than they personally give, and what they give comes at the expense of the credibility of liberals and progressives in general.

Anonymous July17th said...

"One might compare HuffPo to walmart, because truthfully they appear to be the Wal-mart of the Blogosphere."

Good point, I also liked the "Jerry Springer" comparison as well. So, essentially, in terms of AH's aspirations, this was all about the money from the very beginning. Individualisum, progressivisum, liberalisum, are just footnotes to the company mission statement?

She did switch from Reps to Dems, but, seems like Reps are into the really BIG bucks. Maybe she has a conscience about how she makes her money. We do know she has a problem coming clean when first confronted with her mistakes. I'm hooked on how this plays out.


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